For BruCON 4 (2012), and for THOTCON 0x04 (2013), Josh Corman and I presented on Cyberwar. While the topic has been beaten to death, our talk focused on two aspects. First, a solid debunking of the rhetoric and hype that has dominated the topic for years. Second, building up a new set of ideas that seem to be lost on the cyberwar ‘experts’, that effectively broadens the topic and should make everyone reconsider what they think they know about it. In short, Cyberwar has been here for a long time, and it isn’t what we were expecting.